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If you buy something through one of these links, I might make a small commission. Instant Access. Does it? Related Content. Some of the very contrasty conditions look to me as adequately handled with DR. I cannot detect banding even in the high iso samples. Keeping my fingers crossed The shadows have been pushed hard enough to see underneath the truck — which is itself in the shade — even though the exposure, while hot, kept decent detail in the sunlit forest behind.

Thanks Samuel, that is indeed one of the images I looked up and I though promising. Just I was hoping to see a bit more aggressive processing to see the limit of the sensor. I agree, but I need to mess around more by myself with the final raw files, so far so good though. At first I was really skeptical. BTW I still don't understand why and how canon communicates on this camera, it really doesn't help Coming from a 60D it will be a nice upgrade.

I'll miss the swivel screen, but I needed something beefier for what I'll have to do. The 5D mark III would have been ideal, but it's really hard to justify if I can keep my and still push the shadows and shoot in poor conditions better then before. I haven't checked the samples from my phone but looking at comments of internet-photographers who doesn't actually take photographs but only reads internet fluff, it seems that Canon's RAWs are better than first 7D :.

I hope I can't blame the lens as a Canon lens at F8-F10 should be sharp! Even my now 3 years old Sony NEX-7 wipes the floor with this sensor looking at the amount of contrast and color I can pull out of shadows without getting noise at ISO There is no banding visible like on the 7DmkI, but that's proabably just due to a better processing.

It's made to be a fast camera with very fast AF for action and sports shooters. For them this camera will be just fine and certainly do the job. Secondly- The DR is bad for what, number crunching and obsessing online? What application do you think the DR is not good for? Tap tap, be specific please if you can. I didn't even say the camera is crap or anything, why so nervous? The 7DmkII is certainly a nice camera for it's sports and action niche due to the superb autofocus.

If you tell me why I should use a DSLR for my landscapes or macros and why this sensor should be good enough for me then go ahead, tell me with some strong arguments! When you need fast shutter speeds moving subjects , you're almost never at base ISO.

There, Canon's DR is as good or better than any. If you're not shutter speed constrained there's nothing moving in the scene , you can bracket you should be on a tripod anyway. Also, in a high DR scene, even 13 or 14 stops may not be enough, and even then you'll get better results bracketing. This is why all the fuss about low ISO DR by other measures their sensors are as good as or better than any has not impacted Canon one bit.

Most people don't care at all, and for those who do and are serious about it it doesn't matter. You do read some ridiculous statements here. Pixel level sharpness is very good. Dpreview never over-sharpen their samples but download one of the raw conversions and sharpen a little in any programme and you will see how wrong Zeisschen is.

As for dynamic range, well, anyone can see it is very good. One or two photos here actually push that hard with great results. Zeisschen Your conclusion is worthless as is your entire post. It's like ripping Usain Bolt for being a sub-par marathon runner.

The justice is, that no matter of all the trashing, this will be and by a landslide the best selling camera for its purpose.

I don't assume there will be many birdwatchers throwing away their Canon telephotos and jumping the boat over to These comments are hilarious. Who cares about DR?? DR is arguably perhaps the most important metric. I can push my files from the k5 I and IIs all over the place. I can barely push shadows from my k-7 1EV before banding gets ugly. Many scenes have wide, challenging tonal ranges. But yeah, DR is only for pixel peepers and armchair photogs right? Its one of the most important metrics IMO.

I mean it is an important parameter, don't get me wrong, but for the target group of 7dmk2 AF speed and precision, fps, buffer size, AF points coverage are FAR more important, than DR alone. That's incorrect. The increased dynamic range at base ISO is due to low levels of noise injection before the analog signal is digitized, likely because the analog to digital conversions are on the imaging chip itself and therefore very 'close' - in the signal processing chain - to the analog data coming off the image sensor.

An analysis by Chipworks indicated that a separate ADC chip is used by Canon, which they hypothesize is a large part of the reason for the extra noise injection and low dynamic range. You can think of this noise as 'additive', after the image sensor has been read. Hence it affects deep shadows of low ISO less amplified images. To provide a counter-argument to this, almost all the higher DR scenes I shot in the D gallery - including the high shutter speed ones on the beach - were ISO Often shadows were pushed stops upon stops, especially in that stairwell scene with the model.

May or may not matter to you, but to say it doesn't matter to anyone who uses a camera seriously Rishi Sanyal This is an interesting topic. It actually depends on the implementation, because having a matrix of super fast ADC on the same die as ultra sensitive analog circuitry is as much of a challenge as having to IO the analog signal and transfer it to another chip without much noise pick-up along the way.

I don't know the details about the Sony chip, but I imagine it's either a hybrid or multi-die chip or they use some sort of substrate isolation between the analog and digital part. Thanks for supporting my arguments with your own experience and knowledge. It's so hard to discuss with diehard fanboys about things they have never seen before and obviously understand nothing about Rishi Sanyal I have read the article you mention.

It is clear, that as Sony uses 0. But that also means designing those ADCs in-house and paying eventual royalties for patented technologies. Since Sony is a large technological power house, they likely have access to truckloads of IPs in many process nodes and it is the cheapest option for them to design their own MCM because for the ADCs all they need to do is open the drawer and pick one.

The same way it seems to me, that it is the cheapest option for Canon to buy the ADCs as a standalone product and not try to outperform Analog Devices in their own game.

It will be interesting to see what Canon will do in the future, eventually they have to go down in the process. Zeisschen: "It's so hard to discuss with diehard fanboys about things they have never seen before and obviously understand nothing about That makes sense. I enjoy all brands. Like I said, and I think this is definitely true: Canon users are vast, most of them are fine with the output in raw from the sensors they produce.

Canon can stand to improve their sensors however, and they should. Right now, two such situations come to mind, architectural photography and landscapes. One more, night time photography, where you have extreme contrasts between lit and shadow areas, and where you might actually want to keep details in the highlights and pull a bit the shadows to get some detail there as well. Don't get me wrong, the 7D Mk. II is a great camera, and i would buy one to complement my aging Canon bodies, but not with this sensor technology.

You seem to suggest anyone wanting good IQ and high DR should just bracket, use a tripod and so on. Well, i can still use a Pentium4 to process images today, it's all in the photographers ability, and you can certainly do it just fine.

But why would you use a P4 today when you have finer machines? And no, i'm not suggesting the 7D Mk. II is intended as a landscape camera, i'm perfectly aware of the intended audience of the 7D Mk. II and its purpose. But having a modern sensor on it wouldn't devalue it, regardless of its BIF, sports, wildlife, fast action goals.

I think the point he's making is that even the sensors with the best test scores can't capture the full DR needed in one exposure.

Not yet at least. So regardless you're going to need to bracket if you want the full DR even with the best sensors and until such time as a maker can produce a sensor that can handle extreme DR of a scene in one exposure, the argument against Canon is moot.

Yes DR in other sensors produced other than Canon contain more DR available in the raw file, but its still "not enough" for the extremes we are discussing here to be handled with one exposure. Canon needs to improve, there is no question Please point out where I did this. Be specific. I specifically addressed the fallacy that 'DR at base ISO doesn't matter [especially when using fast shutter speeds]' and the fallacy that somehow the DR of cameras that have more DR still isn't suitable for many high DR scenarios in fact, it is enough for many scenarios that would be consider 'high DR' for a Canon DSLR.

If you read more into my comments than what I'd intended, that's your problem. Have any examples of such high DR scenes that are still beyond the capabilities of the best sensors? You make them sound ubiquitous, so perhaps you could provide some examples. Hi Rishi, you want me to post you an example of a real life scene with extreme range of light out of the range of the best sensors here?

However, sunrise and sunset shots are a great example, especially sunsets when the red channel gets blown out completely. I've got a K5IIs that has very decent DR in the raw files and sunset scenes are very difficult to get looking similar to the DR we see with our eyes- with one shot- color and contrast especially.

I'm not saying you aren't correct, but maybe if you posted a sample of a scene light metered to have 16 stops of DR total, processed with one raw file from whatever sensor you choose, that may be a better way to end this debate :. The goal being that a scene is one image, that has extreme range of light, looking similar to what we see with our eyes. To date, I've not seen a sensor capable of doing that in one raw file.

I'm working on exactly the scenario you mention - a sunset where the clouds lit up bright orange almost a half-hour after sunset - exposed so as to not clip the red channel in the clouds well, I took hundreds of exposure so I could select the right one after analysis in RawDigger. This was shot as one exposure on the Nikon D You may be surprised by the results. I certainly was, having shot that exact scene many times on Velvia, and every iteration of the Canon 5D, using 3 to 4 stop graduated ND filters, no less.

I'm looking forward to it. I guess that leaves the question of just how high of quality the overall file is after conversion? Guess Ill find out! Rishi Sanyal I will just say I'm waiting anxiously for those samples. Until I see them I have a hard time believing any camera sensor can capture in one exposure the same dr I can see with my eyes especially in scenarios like a sunset. I'm sure d is a wonderful camera nevertheless.

BTW, does d have bracketing? If yes, then it would mean, that the manufacturer considered the single exposure DR to be insufficient in some scenarios. Trust me when I say we're working diligently on it. In the meantime, I'd encourage folks to think twice before stating that the extra DR of some sensors aren't worthwhile since they still can't capture most real-world HDR scenes.

Any improvement is still an improvement. I can understand why some sound hyperbolic in their statements about the DR advantages some sensors provide. That can be revolutionary - to some. One of my fav landscape photographers shoots Canon; the other, both Nikon and Canon. My fav wedding photog shoots Canon.

I had a hard time believing it as well. Yes, D has bracketing. I'm not sure that says much about the capabilities of the sensor one way or another. ISO shouldn't be implemented the way it is, for example, yet it is. Furthermore, I have to bracket to nail the shot that's just short of clipping, so it helps there as well.

Even for a theoretically perfect sensor, there's still be noise in the shadows that results from random variations in the arrival of light itself at the sensor. Its contributions increase the lower your exposure. So shadows are always at a disadvantage compared to brighter tones. The result of this is that when you brighten these shadows, they'll look like they were shot at higher ISOs the same reason some complained that some of the tones in my images in the D gallery looked noisy for base ISO.

The only way to combat this is bracketing, or image averaging. I then average these in PhotoAcute or PS , and then have one flat file to adjust to taste. Unless I'm going to be pushing tones a lot and printing large. Thanks for your reasonable replies Rishi, and for the private messages. This means my summer shots in the mediterranean with shaded areas under thick trees and white sun-lit walls needed over 16 stops to reproduce what I could see! And, by the way, my eyes could indeed see the whole scene just fine -- except when the sun-lit portion made up most of my eyes' field-of-view, in which case I couldn't see much of anything in the shade I guess because that triggered the iris to close.

The GX7 has a respectable sensor in it. I'm curious as to how you made the calculation going from 12 stops on your camera to 16 stops in the real world? Our eyes generally see around 14 EV in a static snapshot.

The question for you, then, is whether or not a camera with 2 to 2. And let's not forget that some of those midtones would've looked cleaner from the higher normalized SNR due to the bigger sensor surface area of FF. I was doing a bracket of five images in 1-stop increments, so that's an additional 4 stops. I've heard the 14 stops number for the eyes before.

I think that is what your eyes see comfortably. But if the bright sections are not too large and your iris doesn't close, you can clearly see a lot more than that though it does feels uncomfortable and is probably not healthy for your retina to do it a lot. There's also probably significant variation from person to person as there is in perception of colors. And, to answer your other question: of course I'd take two extra stops, it would make things easier in some situations.

But there's hardly any situation I can remember where I needed them and couldn't work around it and I do remember many where I needed more. Other things matter more to me: the ergonomics, the low-light performance, and the fast lenses with the 5DIII; the portability and the quality compact lenses with the GX7 and GM1.

I think it's a safe bet that within 20 years we'll have 35mm-format ISO-less organic sensors with MP and giant well capacity and bit readout that you can shoot at ISO 5 and pull up in post to ISO But I think that, at this point, anything further is nice and I'll take it! The same is not true for video yet, if you're into that: the current improvements are still making a big difference.

I'm not anxious Rishi, it's Friday. Take your time, it's no bother to me. I think much is lost in written communication at times. I'm totally impressed with the K5II's ability to lift shadows and still retain a degree of color information in even the most demanding scenes.

That's with 14 stops of DR available in the raw files. I guess what I'm looking forward to seeing is quality All the while having control over highlights and no blown out color channels. That is what I consider DR good enough for one exposure. Otherwise, bracketing is still in order for me, in the most demanding scenes. Maybe that has been achieved as you say with the D, and that's great.



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